在「鬼畜效應」下,hit點即日激升五倍。為報答鬼畜超人連blog之恩,不怕犯天下之大諱,代鬼畜超人寫此篇文章(不過我不會集中講鬼畜道)。其實我們一直期待鬼畜超人、Momoko及歐陽等「十八禁game」高手寫寫他們的經驗。望穿秋水,不如由我這個外行人「黑白講」,打開話題。



講起香港的H-Game的起源,與PC game的歷史是不可分。基本上大部份H-game都是PC game,而且差不多都是made in Japan。這情况至今無大不變。家用機與H-game關係不強。Sega Saturn曾短時期推出家用18game,但無法起死回生。PS也有些成人向的game,但不成氣候。



1990年代是H-game在日本的全盛期。香港也受此衝擊甚深。90年代以來PC在香港趨向個人化,大量年青男性開始接觸並沉迷H-game 這可能是當時影響本地年青男性最大的日本流行文化形式之一。日本H-game是成人向動畫形式的電玩。內容多是「後宮式」,即男性艶福無邊,追女得心應手,與多位女性有關係。

 


早期不少
H-game(如『同級生』、『下級生』及『To Heart』系列)故事及人物造型頗為清純、可愛及唯美(甚至有女性玩家),而且故事性及人物性格與心理的描寫也較强。它們多是AVG game,重文字(不過不懂日文的港玩家愛「飛字」)、故事及圖片。



後期的H-game以滿足男性性幻想為重點,帶有强暴、鬼畜、調教、偷窺、虐待及變態的作品漸成主流(如『屈折』、『監禁』、『尾行』及『Sexy Beach』系列)。女角的身裁也越來越誇張,蘿莉味甚重。一味追求視覺刺激(近年多3G及高畫質)及性愛元素。玩家也變成清一色男性。



香港H-game文化有以下的特色。


(1) 盜版盛行:旺角信和是翻版H-game的天堂。近年網上下載也十分普遍。總之本地H-game市場都不是正版的世界。這情況與AV十分相似。不過本地H-game愛好者卻願意花錢買正版周邊商品(如figurine, 海布、畫集、扭蛋、music CD、動畫OVA等)。




(2) 盛極而衰:90年代是全盛期,在年青男性之間十分普及。千禧年以後已大勢已去。舊的H-game迷多不再玩(只留下一大堆花名如「鬼畜王蘭斯」及中大的blog神樣「鬼畜人」),近年玩H-game風氣也日減。H-game從主流文化降回次文化。


(3) 本地化:除少數H-game(如『同級生2』)有中文版外,大部份都是日文版。本地玩家已建立一套玩法(如「飛字」去減少語言的障礙)。近年中國大陸出現多種H-game的非官方中文版(如『監禁』及『尾行』等),供人免費下載。港玩家自然「受惠」。



拋樽引玉,請各位H-game高手賜正。


Posted by 知日部屋屋主 | 評論(87) | 引用(0) | 閱讀(107707)
Au Yeung +
2005/09/13 18:52
Humiliation is different from discussion; a curse is different from an opinion.
The writing below is obviously an sexual abuse so that I feel very much offended and unhappy with it. The real perversive and indecent guy is 真善美 herself. Her shouting of humiliating words make me sad and sick. Just a word: 最低!puke
真善美 +
2005/09/13 17:52
你們都排斥外來的異見人士,我知道了,你們都喜歡那些對你們千依百順,小鳥依人的平面女郎,那麼不打巴攪了,Go ahead to make love with your computer.zzz
SSE +
2005/09/12 19:43
似乎有必要介紹大作?(太久沒玩了...)
不過就我玩過的HGAME來說,有不少會在一開始打一個畫面,
告訴你這是犯罪不要學(有時候連刑法條文都抬出來)。
Au Yeung +
2005/09/12 18:13
Fictions or movies that can be called "great pieces" are also not more than 1/100 of all pieces. A person who only watches one or two movie(s) and then tries to convince others that "All movies are boring" is a fool, while a person who have not even watched a single movie but still criticizes that movies are boring is a real idiot.
知日部屋屋主 回覆於 2006/10/21 08:20
加油
kctsang +
2005/09/12 17:57
>不過請恕我直言,某些H-game的畫面,我只能用"變態","露骨"這些形容詞來
>形容,不,是勁變態才對。
如果妳想討論極端的H-game(例如獵奇系)的話,這些形容詞只怕是小看了它們。

>很對不起,像小美這種既無知又幼稚,英語不靈光,日語又差勁的低B小女
>孩,又怎可能體會到那些大作的"偉大"之處呢?慶幸小美還懂得"殘酷"、"暴虐
>"、"犯罪"這些字彙的意義。
妳不嘗試理解H-game,然後想當然地以自己有限而狹隘的知識去解讀H-game,去否定那些大作"偉大"的可能性,這樣子和那些說《Lolita》(小說)和大衛像是「色情物品」的人有甚麼分別?我只能說妳無異於井底之蛙。

>再者,一百款H-game之中,究竟有多少可稍得上是"偉大"的呢?
那怕只有一款,就已經足夠推翻妳當初的發言。

>真的十分之抱歉,小美要是吃了豹子膽也不敢侮辱學識淵博、辭鋒銳利、巧言
>令色的Au Yeung先生呀。就當我發哥哥的脾氣,Okay?哥哥也不會那麼小
>器,人家說兩句便發怒。
這裏的人不是妳哥哥,他們沒理由要忍受妳那「兩句」的攻擊,尤其妳上面這種話裏有骨的發言。
Au Yeung +
2005/09/12 17:48
>就當我發哥哥的脾氣,Okay?

Okay of course. Your private affairs do not bother others at all. Your family affairs are not our matters. So please let off your emotions free as you like in your solely private sector instead of emissing them in public places. To speak frankly it is a great deal of trouble to others.
You can just write your subjective or even imaginative impressions down on your diary as much as you like. Offensive writings without adaquate knowledge and logic are doomed to being criticized fiercely by others.bad
真善美 +
2005/09/12 14:57
食色性也,人皆有之,基本上我是不反對性行為的,而我也不諱言跟其他人一樣,會對"性"產生好奇和憧憬的。不過請恕我直言,某些H-game的畫面,我只能用"變態","露骨"這些形容詞來形容,不,是勁變態才對。
很對不起,像小美這種既無知又幼稚,英語不靈光,日語又差勁的低B小女孩,又怎可能體會到那些大作的"偉大"之處呢?慶幸小美還懂得"殘酷"、"暴虐"、"犯罪"這些字彙的意義。再者,一百款H-game之中,究竟有多少可稍得上是"偉大"的呢?
真的十分之抱歉,小美要是吃了豹子膽也不敢侮辱學識淵博、辭鋒銳利、巧言令色的Au Yeung先生呀。就當我發哥哥的脾氣,Okay?哥哥也不會那麼小器,人家說兩句便發怒。
SSE +
2005/09/11 10:18
就我所認識的女性(大學學妹)所言,女生宿舍其實一樣有人看AV、玩HGAME、看H漫...
華人圈中的女性慾望不像男人一樣彰顯於外並不代表女人就不會有性慾,更不代表女人發洩性慾的方式是對著孔子念論語...shy

雖然不認識真善美的哥哥,不過忽哭忽笑和HGAME有什麼關係?若根據真善美的說法,那HGAME最直接的影響應該就是那「極盡變態淫穢之能事」的畫面,也就是由之引發的情慾,而不是那「無聊」劇情引動的心理波動吧?(還得先看得懂日文咧)

要說服他人接受自己的論調,請拿出證據來,而不是僅僅「我認為」。
kctsang +
2005/09/11 08:11
>Au Yeung
>By the way, there are a number of mistakes in >http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BE%A1%E5%AE%85%E6...

改了它吧!維基百科是鼓勵人(有建設性地)修改文章的,而且就算不登記也可以改動文章。

其實個人比較推介英文版甚至日文版,可是對普通人來說一大篇的英文甚至日文可能大難了,所以才推介中文版。smile
知日部屋屋主 +
2005/09/11 07:09
萌系很多時都是先有造型,受落便跨媒體化。對於重故事及substance的舊派的ACG愛好者有些不是味道。
Au Yeung +
2005/09/11 02:45
By the way, there are a number of mistakes in http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BE%A1%E5%AE%85%E6... .
For instance,

>義大利主辦的「威尼斯雙年展第9回國際建築展」(La Biennale di Venezia),日本館的出展項目便是以萌為主題,而且一些特定的二次元美少女畫像還被一些國際知名的設計名牌採用,使其價值開始重新被世人所肯定。

Japan's theme was "OTAKU" but not "Moe."

My house, as a stylish sample of "Japanese otaku's living space," had been being exhibited at "La Biennale di Venezia."
Thus, there is a foreigner (Chinese) getting mixed up with Japanese in the exhibition of "Japanese otaku's living space." I am proud of it.laugh
Au Yeung +
2005/09/11 02:33
Thank you for your quotation, kctsang.coolsmile
What mass media says is always the same... Too boring. Media literacy of those blindly believe in such mass media is terribly low.
kctsang +
2005/09/11 02:23
剛在蘋果日報網上版中找到的,貼出來供各位看看。
其實也不只是一句嗎…


電 車 男 效 應 月 面 兔 俘 虜 御 宅 族



由 日 本 女 星 伊 東 美 和 男 星 伊 藤 淳 史 合 演 的 人 氣 日 劇 《 電 車 男 》 氣 勢 一 時 無 兩 , 最 近 更 帶 旺 了 劇 中 出 現的 虛 構 卡 通 《 月 面 兔 兵 器 》 , 卡 通 機 械 兔 女 郎 月 城 Mina 亦 即 時 成 為 日 本 御 宅 族 ( otaku , 即 終 日 躲 在 家 中 沉 迷 上 網 打 機 看 漫 畫 的 一 群 ) 的 新 偶 像 , 有 關 的 周 邊 產 品亦 成 為 fans 搶 購 對 象 , 電 視 台 有 見 及 此 , 即 火 速 為 卡 通 製 作 神 秘 網 頁 , 並 帶 挈 製作 這 個 卡 通 的 GONZO 動 畫 製 作 公 司 以 及 漫 畫 家 okama 人 氣 急 升 。

虛 構 卡 通 女 主 角 大 熱
正 在 日 本 富 士 電 視 台 熱 播 的 《 電 車 男 》 , 突 破 性 地 以 科 幻 卡 通 作 為 開 場 短 片 , 片 中出 現 的 女 機 械 人 戰 士 月 城 Mina , 由 東 京 秋 葉 原 飛 往 宇 宙 的 場 面 , 令 觀 眾 留 下 深 刻印 象 。 劇 集 的 原 聲 大 碟 , 亦 以 她 作 為 唱 片 封 套 。
Mina 其 實 是 為 了 此 劇 而 製 作 的 虛 構 卡 通 《 月 面 兔 兵 器 》 的 女 主 角 。 伊 藤 淳史 飾 演 的 「 電 車 男 」 剛 司 , 便 是 Mina 的 超 級 fans , 他 對 Mina 的 模 型 公 仔 愛 不 釋手 , 後 來 更 拿 Mina 向 伊 東 表 白 自 己 是 一 名 御 宅 族 , 並 將 Mina 公 仔 送 予 伊 東 作 為 他 們 的 定 情 信 物 。
其 實 月 城 Mina 與 日 本 御 宅 族 關 係 密 切 , Mina 來 自 一 班 非 專 業 動 畫 人 兼 御 宅 族八 三 年 製 作 的 傳 說 短 片 《 DAICON IV OPENING ANIMATION 》 , 影 片 還 收 錄 在 OVA 卡通 《 OTAKU 的 Video 》 之 中 , 這 班 御 宅 族 後 來 更 成 立 了 製 作 動 畫 《 新 世 紀 福 音 戰 士》 的 GAINAX 公 司 。 因 此 月 城 Mina 勾 起 不 少 日 本 動 畫 迷 的 回 憶 , 更 吸 納 了 不 少 新 fans 。 早 前 在 日 本 大 型 漫 畫 展 內 , 便 限 量 推 出 了 Mina 1:6 模 型 公 仔 , 相 關 產 品 更被 搶 購 一 空 。

神 秘 網 頁 送 wallpaper
最 近 日 本 富 士 電 視 台 便 在 《 電 車 男 》 官 方 網 站 www.fujitv.co.jp/denshaotoko/ 內 設 立 一 個 「 電 車 STORY 」 網 站 , 介 紹 《 月 面 兔 兵 器 》 故 事 內 容 , 還 加 設 了 一 個 神 秘 網 頁 , 只 要在 《 電 》 劇 網 站 首 頁 上 的 「 電 」 字 上 click 一 下 , 便 可 進 入 《 月 面 兔 兵 器 》 神 秘 網站 , 再 click 一 下 Mina 會 動 的 兔 耳 朵 , 更 可 以 下 載 Mina 與 其 他 美 少 女 戰 士 的 wallpaper 。
kctsang +
2005/09/11 02:17
>今天上blog發現有很多針對自己的文章,是自己選錯了發言的平台嗎?
這要視乎妳的目的。
1. 如果妳是誠心討論的話,妳沒有選錯發言的平台,只是大家對妳的發言不敢苟同而已;
2. 如果妳只是想找讚成妳的意見,妳的確選錯了平台,我建議妳找一些充滿衛道之士,站在道德高位的地方,相信必定有很多人同意妳。

>但我是絕不認同接吻是一種變態行為,請不要看不起人家。
同樣地,(至少)我絕不認同H-game一定和變戀或孌童有關,請不要看不起人家。

>哥哥有時會無緣無故地大笑和哭泣,這是一種玩H-game的後遺症,還是一種"
>發洩青春期裡壓抑的妄想或其他各種壓力"的方式?
>恕小美無法從H-game中看出大條道理,但無論如何很感激depth對我這種無
>禮發言採取寬容的態度,如果我冒犯了大家請多多包涵。
我不知道,我不是這方面的專家;可是「A君是男人」也不等於「男人一定是A君」吧?就算妳哥哥真的被H-game「所害」,也不等於H-game一定是害人毒物。
至於妳無法從H-game中看出大條道理,這是因為妳對H-game帶著先入為主的偏見。試試找一套真正的大作,玩玩看,事後再批評也不遲。


>>是了,今日看蘋果日報,有一篇文章叫"月面兔俘虜御宅族",介紹了進入神
>>秘網站"月面兔兵器"的方法,depth有上過嗎?另外作者將御宅族定義為"終
>>日躲在家中沉迷上網打機看漫畫的一群",這群人真的值得我們去驕傲嗎?
不要信那種不準不實,印在娛樂版的新聞。如果妳有心採討甚麼是御宅族的話,維基百科是一個好開始:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BE%A1%E5%AE%85%E6...
其中提及:
「(近年)日文中的「おたく」一詞除了指稱動漫畫與遊戲的愛好者以外,也可用在其他方面的狂熱者,如軍事おたく,鐵道おたく。簡單的來說,只要對於某種領域有異於常人的熱衷(尤其是較特殊的領域),就可以稱作おたく。」
Au Yeung +
2005/09/11 00:46
I forgot to type the meaing of "yaoi" before.

Yaoi refers to manga (and later all ACG media) that focuses on homosexual relationships between male characters. It is predominantly a female genre. In the field of game, yaoi appears in the form of BL (Boys' Love) games, of which a high proportion is H (for adults only). Just as male genres like girl games, some lovers uses it for satisfying their sexual desire, and some of they don't.
Au Yeung +
2005/09/11 00:37
>有中國人的姓氏為什麼要放棄中國文字?

I am now living in Japan and using a Japanese OS. There is some problems with my Chinese input system. When I type in Chinese, the system sometimes freeze.

>如何區分男性性愛和女性性愛?

I have not made such a classification. I just criticized that you were discriminative against the male sex in that you denounced the satisfaction of secual desire of men, not women, particularly.

>H-game有什麼教育意味?那些攻略好像在教男人怎樣在車廂中非禮女生,是指這些嗎?

It seems that you have very little knowledge about girl games or H-games. What you are saying is nothing more than typical misunderstandings, or even more, stereotypes.
Good games have their own themes, usually social or philosophical, and their own plots, usually moving. H scenes are, in many cases, nothing more than a method of expression. (I do not deny the existence of H-game-for-H, but they are just a part.)
I am conducting a research about girl game players, using the method of interview and questionnaire. Some of them say that girl games teach them to love people surronding them, and some of them even say that H games save them from an empty life. Many of them tell me that girl game is a great genre of art.

I just wonder why you are so offensive towards cultures and people you don't know at all? To speak frankly, I feel deeply offended by you and am angry at your humiliating words. You have been criticizing the personality of all girl game lovers. You do not pay respect to others at all.
In this sense, in terms of moral standard, you are much more immoral than those otaku and girl game lovers, b-lolita, etc, you hate.

>沒聽過Yaoi,也沒聽說過女生玩H-game以滿足自己的性慾。

The fact that you have never heard about it does not mean that it does not exist.
Yaoi is the
In my research, there are exactly female H game players using some games for their sexual excitement. Of course, there are others playing H-games for story or for others. Just as male players, all girl game players choose their own enjoyment from the same commodity. You can never "define" the usage of it based on your prejudice which only exists inside your brain.

>也算不上是歧視,我其實是蠻喜歡未接觸H-game前的哥哥,那時的他比現在善解人意,溫柔體貼得多了。現在的他很少跟家人談話,猜不透他在想什麼。

Your opinions are obviously prejudice.
Please do not generalize a single person's case to all. Moreover, I don't know your brother at all so that I can't make an analysis whether your opinions upon your brother are correct.
If you make your opinions based solely on your single experience, I have to say that it is too naive.
真善美 +
2005/09/10 23:36
今天上blog發現有很多針對自己的文章,是自己選錯了發言的平台嗎?

>depth
小美於這方面的經驗尚淺,不能深切地體會閣下的言論。或者閣下的說法有其道理,但我是絕不認同接吻是一種變態行為,請不要看不起人家。
哥哥有時會無緣無故地大笑和哭泣,這是一種玩H-game的後遺症,還是一種"
發洩青春期裡壓抑的妄想或其他各種壓力"的方式?
恕小美無法從H-game中看出大條道理,但無論如何很感激depth對我這種無禮發言採取寬容的態度,如果我冒犯了大家請多多包涵。
是了,今日看蘋果日報,有一篇文章叫"月面兔俘虜御宅族",介紹了進入神秘網站"月面兔兵器"的方法,depth有上過嗎?另外作者將御宅族定義為"終日躲在家中沉迷上網打機看漫畫的一群",這群人真的值得我們去驕傲嗎?

>Au Yeung
有中國人的姓氏為什麼要放棄中國文字?
如何區分男性性愛和女性性愛?H-game有什麼教育意味?那些攻略好像在教男人怎樣在車廂中非禮女生,是指這些嗎?沒聽過Yaoi,也沒聽說過女生玩H-game以滿足自己的性慾。
也算不上是歧視,我其實是蠻喜歡未接觸H-game前的哥哥,那時的他比現在善解人意,溫柔體貼得多了。現在的他很少跟家人談話,猜不透他在想什麼。

>SSE
我有哪一句在說「HGAME讓性犯罪率上升」,我只是說過H-GAME會荼毒年青人的心智而已!
Au Yeung +
2005/09/09 14:56
SSE is correct.
I did not mention it because I consider the fact common sense. It does not require any further research to prove it as it is already an undeniable truth.
SSE +
2005/09/09 11:34
有個地方出錯了~
全般刑案日本比台灣高一些,日本高於台灣的部分在於殺人、竊盜等。
SSE +
2005/09/09 11:28
其實真善美一開始的論調就已經有問題了。
證據:
http://www.npa.gov.tw/stats.php?page=content06_1&a...

「HGAME讓性犯罪率上升」這種立論其實是衛道份子最愛用卻也最沒根據的理論,就警政署2003年份的各國犯罪率比較來說,日本不管在全般犯罪或性犯罪案件的比例都比台灣還要低,性犯罪率之低在比較的24國中僅次於義大利(前三名是加拿大、以色列和丹麥)。
同時,該文件將強姦類與性犯罪分開,在衛道份子口中,這個鬼畜遊戲一大堆的日本國居然榮獲此類型犯罪率最低的國家!(前三名是南非、美國、比利時)
性產業大國日本,到底哪裡犯罪率高?
Au Yeung +
2005/09/06 22:34
真善美's writings are just discrimination against otaku culture and the male sex. Diversity of motives in playing girl games is totally ignored. Moreover, girl games are much more "educative" than AV or pornographic magazines which are solely designed for the satisfaction of sexual desire. Focus of criticisms on male players is also a prejudice. Why don't 真善美 criticize "Yaoi" or others? Of course, I don't think that Yaoi is a genre specified for the satisfaction of female sexual desire; I just think that 真善美 is extremely discriminative against the male sex.
depth +
2005/09/06 15:40
>我不能為正確的女性形象下定義,但將女性當成玩物或男性發洩性慾的對象決不是正確的態度。
個人絕對贊成閣下對「將女性當成玩物或男性發洩性慾的對象決不是正確的態度。」;但是閣下道德化人類先天的本能,個人是萬萬難以茍同。

正因為人比動物更可能在社會行為上約束自己,所以在本能上才會越有被「文化」化的慾望天性,這不算什麼等價交換,只能說閣下對「人」了解太少了,無論是個體的人,還是群體的人。

>我不知道「痕」是一款什麼樣子的作品,但市面上有不少H-game卻肯定是粗鄙不堪。閣下所說的文化現象我不反對是存在的,固然所有色情淫褺物品都已經形成了一種「色情文化」。
「色情文化」就是一種文化,與其他文化一起成長成文明,當文明越多樣,「色情文化」就越多樣(犯罪、詭詐也隨文明的經驗更加多元),蓋閣下已偏蓋全所有元素,只能說偏見深積,夫復何言?

>所以說BL是義結金蘭的典型、正太是一個會用玩具車遙控器控制巨大機器人的超級神童。(←這是該語彙出處作品,無深究者自然不知)
不明白閣下所指為何。
意思同上回應,指閣下以為H-Game僅以為「萌」系女性角色為號召、賣點,疏不知青菜魚肉各有所好,有各種的妄想,自有各種題材設定。

>普級電玩用這方法騙錢不用特別說明。
當然:P

>我哥哥玩的H-game總有一些角色像是十至十五歲的女孩,他喜歡傍若無人地「玩」那些平面女孩,也不顧及家人的感受,我肯定他是有孌童傾向的。
「孌童傾向」是指喜好可愛小男生(意即上述之正太)者,然而閣下稱兄長偏好Teen(指青少年)角色,顯與事實不符。

倘若貴兄長於開放環境下公然玩起H-Game,導致家人厭惡,這確實是非常不適當的(正如同某些情侶不顧他人感受於路街親吻愛撫的不適當),但若該兄長於不干擾(不打擾他人或被打擾),則規勸即可,況且以不才看來,該兄長主要是發洩青春期裡壓抑的妄想或其他各種壓力,這尤其是在對異姓的各種幻想上,家人應適當勸戒其虛幻與真實之差,這才是根本之道。

--
我猜閣下可能年紀尚輕,或者不能了解男性的大腦於青春期開始,動物的本能優先權高於女性(無論是性向或脾氣),而認為一切性有關的都是變態噁心,但請別忘了要是按照生物學的觀點上「接吻」才是真正的一種變態,因為只有人類才會把性的慾望發洩在嘴上。

又譬如本篇所介紹的「To Heart」等這類戀愛遊戲,其實也有不少女性玩家喜愛,Leaf/Key製作的遊戲,其戀愛唯美騙取眼淚之處皆已列入殿堂級,改編成OVA後許多愛好者甚至不知其本尊為成年向...,為什麼會有這麼大差別?這是因為「寄情」的方式不同,如同日劇化的電車男救贖了不少「文化弱勢者」的心理,許多長年被上司壓迫、被同事排擠者,因為不能讓自己陷入社會所不能接受程度,僅能藉「情境遊戲」宣洩。

請注意,個人在三強調,這些人之所以用此手段,乃是因為「理性上知其犯罪行為而欲其除罪之手段」,換句話說,無論是多粗鄙之類型,皆有其存在必要,重點在於欲使用其作為宣洩者之成熟。

無法區分現實與虛幻,並以其為犯罪藉口,才是真可惡、真敗類。

去認識自己的真實,平衡自己的兩面,才算是健康的現代人。
depth +
2005/09/05 16:08
>真善美
>H-game歪曲女性形象
請問何者算是正確的女性形象?閣下嗎?還是閣下的腦內妄想?

>內容低俗無聊
所以說H-game實際上是乏人問津,所有引發的文化現象是業者炒作結果?

>畫面極盡變態淫穢之能事
「痕」是一款極盡變態淫穢之能事的超級毒瘤。

>政府應大力禁制,予以取締,免得我國年青人受其荼毒
所以說日本性犯罪率是全世界最高的是吧?
所有性暴力犯罪者都可以說H-Game、H-Anime、H-Comic...引誘犯罪,進而減輕其刑是吧?

>H-game以可愛少女作招徠
所以說BL是義結金蘭的典型、正太是一個會用玩具車遙控器控制巨大機器人的超級神童。

>但正所謂金玉其外, 敗絮其中
因為許多普級電玩也用這方法騙到不少錢嘛~

>愛好H-game一族, 非戀童癖莫屬
原來所有H-game裡非主人公角色全都不滿十歲...
真善美 +
2005/08/30 17:20
H-game歪曲女性形象,內容低俗無聊,畫面極盡變態淫穢之能事,政府應大力禁制,予以取締,免得我國年青人受其荼毒. H-game以可愛少女作招徠, 但正所謂金玉其外, 敗絮其中, 愛好H-game一族, 非戀童癖莫屬.angry
Au Yeung +
2005/08/04 02:37
>ruze

Thank you for your interesting opinions.
Are you a History student? I am a History graduate of CU now studying at Tokyo University.

As Sociologist Miyadai Shinji said, today's Japan is really divided into numerous "Island Universes," which have no major connections with others at all.
The same phenomenon also happens in the field of H-games.
Nowadays, each brand, each game is designated for a small group of mania. Obvious examples are Nitro Plus (specified in "hard-boiled," like HK movie), Liar-Soft (producing games which can only be appreciated by its own fans), Zero and Cage (two makers producing "hentai" games about little kids, both male and female). Makers influcing the whole industry are virtually absent. Ten years ago, we have elf and Alicesoft, five years ago, we have Leaf and Key. Now, we have nothing. Just numerous "Island universes" are there. They will not move in the same direction. Certainly, the scale of each "Universe" is directly related to the scale of each brand.

I agree with your opinion that to perform a cultural-historical research on Edo culture and H-game culture is interesting.
ruze +
2005/08/03 18:22
Au Yeung:

你說的很正確。以會社的規模來看,當年的ELF和ALICE誠然不可以和今天的主流小型會社相比。至於你談到這個結論“.Obviously, the time has changed. The present girl game industry is a giant, chaotic one with no "guiding direction" at all.This is the conclusion of my paper.“ Being a casual observer,我也頗有同感。今天的做法似乎更傾向于由單一公司專門製作單一風格單一類型的遊戲來針對某個特定口味的消費族群。此現象與會社規模縮減,是否可以看作一個互為因果的關係呢?

我傾向于把日本流行文化產品中的色情作品,比作是現代日本的浮世繪。只有日本這樣傳統上就不把肉體享樂為視爲一種罪惡,反而將其正當化的文化,方可成爲這些作品的土壤。這是非常獨特的。相比之下,其他儒家文化圈國家大都受到宋明理學影響,在禁欲主義盛行之下,這些帶有描寫人類情欲成分的作品自然不可能成爲流行文化的一部分。從這個小處來對比江戶時代日本和現代的日本的不同與相同之処,我以爲實在是很有趣的一件事情。
Au Yeung +
2005/08/03 01:47
>Blog Master

I don't think that your article is offensive.smile

However, I do not agree to the use of the culturally-critical term "沉迷". If someone uses "沉迷" to describe ramen lovers or HK comic fans, mayl you feel happy?
Moreover, I think that your description on the HK H-game scene, being the main theme of your article, is rather appropriate, while at the same time the decription on the development of Japanese H-games (Girl games?) being far from the truth. The criterion in the division of "早期" and "後期" is also vague.  

Nevertheless, I think that your article is a good attempt to invite discussions on girl games.good

(Of you have any interest, please contact me for my paper (in Japanese) on the history of girl games, H and non-H. I am confident of its quality indeed.)

>makoto

I agree with your first point.
There are several terms describing these types of games. For instance,

H-game: 18-ban and 15-ban games
Ero-game: same as H-game
adult game / pornographic game: 18-ban or 15-ban games
18-ban game: adult games for 18 years or above only
Girl game: a vague concept including 18-ban and non-18-ban games. However, it may also be a term standing for "non-18-ban nanpa games" when used in a comparactive mood with the term "ero-game" or "bishojo game."
Bishojo game: a vague concept including 18-ban and non-18-ban girl games. However, when used in a comparactive mood with the term "girl game," it may have the same meaning as "ero-game."

Image songs are different from theme songs.
This is difficult to find out the first girl game or 18-ban game with a theme song, but at least girl games with theme songs had already appeared on the PC-9801/DOS-V platform.
If we look at Leaf, a brand also famous in its high-quality songs, its To Heart (1997), earlier than White Album (1998), is already a game with an OP theme song and an ED theme song.
The common misunderstanding of White Album being the first H-game with a theme song is largely a result of the entering of its three songs into karaoke.

>Anacel

I think I was one of the editors participating in the production of the walkthrough of Kichikuou Rance. Is it a book by the "PC game" group (the later GameOne) ?
In fact the editors just translate online Japanese walkthroughs into Chinese. sweat

The disappearance of Chinese translation of H-games is certainly a demerit for its development in the Chinese community. The first H-games I played were all Chinese versions. After attracted by the Chinese version of H-games, I began to play original H-games in Japanese after a year later. I learnt Japanese solely through H-games afterwards, just for the understanding of the game scenario.

>kctsang

Thank you for your reply.
In fact, the entertainment element may not be really related to the "H-degree" or quality of scenario.
In my historical narration (i.e., my own research), I built up three axes for the understanding of the consumption asnd production behaviour of girl games, "Nuki" (the axis of pornography), "Naki" (the axis of literature) and "Moe" (the axis of sense of beauty). In HK, the third axis is virtually absent. This is the main difference between the HK and JP girl game scenes.
"Game-Sei" (the axis of entertainment) is the fourth axis I constructed, but it is not an important axis at all as a girl game CAN BE a girl game if it can satisfy the value judgement according to any one of the first three axes. The entertainment element may be strong or weak unrelated to the main axis, Nuki, naki or moe, the game is inclined towards.

I am now writing a thesis on this and is thinking about the publication project after its completion. Some Japanese companies has already shown their interest.smile

There are many different types of games produced by Alicesoft. At least, it is not a brand specifically emphasizing the "H" element, though its games may be exciting enough for some players. There are some brands producing "激H" games only, or games only with "激H". Alicesoft's selling point is obviously different.
Well, 超昂天使エスカレイヤー is really erotic indeed... It depends on the producing staff.

To buy legal version of Japanese PC games, esp. girl games in HK is really expensive. The absence of second-hand shops is also a reason. (In Japan, I buy second-hand games only. The shop "Trader" in Akihabara is GREAT!)
By the way, the cast of School Days is so gorgeous that its price is in fact lower than my prediction. I can't play the game as its spec is so harsh for my PC...cry
強化人間 +
2005/08/03 01:46
其實多平台化也不是h-game獨有趨勢
正常向遊戲還不是一樣有PC+PS2+GC+XBOX再外加動漫移植或電影化
(哪個公司不想一個創意賣幾份錢的?)
缺水潛艇 +
2005/08/02 23:53
其實H-GAME我近年已不太玩,而且那不是什麼聖域,現在主要是看那些靚靚CG及製作公司,原畫師的發展,因為全日本最強的2D CG技藝人材,大部份集中在H-GAME行業中,對我本身工作十分有幫助,而且萌野及SUPER ROBOT是我研究多年的課題,ACG界有所謂:[萌 & ROBOT是漢之魂]~~

日本人幹2D H玩意可幹到一種社會文化,實在是世界中非常奇特的一件事,而且死士眾多,覆蓋層面越來越廣,有時也頗慶幸中國人的保守思想可在HK這自由地方控制一下這風潮,秋業原四處張貼的裸露2D幼女海報書藉FIGURE,也未免太過可怖太病態了
知日部屋屋主 +
2005/08/02 23:21
缺水潛艇:能夠跟你們這樣的高手學習及交流正是我寫blog的最大動機與滿足。我十分喜歡不同類型的日本流行文化,但是都是「博而不精」。寫什麽都會誤入別人「聖域」。H-game我真的所知不多。為了感謝鬼畜人昨夜睡前即興而寫。若有冒犯H-game愛好者,請多包容。
缺水艇仔 +
2005/08/02 23:11
對不起,我可能語氣是認真了點,其實我覺得你只是率直的說出你論點,如有得罪請多多包涵

你寫的[H-game從主流文化降回次文化]
我認為h-game本身沒有主或次文化,只覺得她基本是一種純粹的商業活動.當中亦一定有非常不錯的作品,這是日本人玩什麼也能玩出專業的民族性之固,喜歡的人自然會做出一種可研究討論的文化

另外中國人是思想保守的民族,8-90年代港台可能是思想最開放的,可以出現一些中文化的h-game,但現在大game公司,怕影響聲譽及壓力,大作h-game中文化可能將來亦非常少見了



kctsang +
2005/08/02 23:07
>Au Yeung
先多謝有關Shizuku的情報。smile

近年Hgame的遊戲性,個人覺得是向兩極發展:一是無甚遊戲性,以H為重點;一是H場面不多(甚至無關痛癢),遊戲性/故事性優先。由於屬於前者的Hgame成為主流,所以做成Hgame整體上遊戲性的下降。

小弟會指Alicesoft屬「激H」會社,是因為其作品的內容,以近年小弟有接觸的作品來說:
鬼畜王Rance(Win95版)
大惡司
大番長
超昂天使エスカレイヤー
モモトト
零式
シェル・クレイル
魔女の贖罪
以上遊戲大部份都含有鬼畜成份,而H畫面(及場景)通常都比較刺激。可是不得不提的是,正如Au Yeung所言,Alicesoft的遊戲在H和遊戲/故事性取得相當好的平衡,屬於以實力取勝的廠商。

剛看了一下,就算如PS2上的第三次機械人大戰alpha( 第3次スーパーロボット大戦α)般的大作也只是賣8379日圓,相比起一般Hgame大作的8800日圓(School Days甚至定價9975日圓),可見買Hgame是相當昂貴的玩意(雖然在日本訂購通常都會便宜1000-2000日圓,零售亦聽聞比定價平不少)。
知日部屋屋主 +
2005/08/02 22:36
缺水潛艇:其實我「淺談」的是香港的H-game文化,不是日本。能夠引起討論不是很好嗎?
Anacel +
2005/08/02 21:18
香港hg 大盛的年代大約由同級生2開始,至鬼畜王rance為全盛,之後慢慢減退.這和當時的遊戲機的能力不無關係, DOS 年代的同級生2和同時期的DOS game比,畫面自然是令人眼前一亮(反正當年的 DOS game 也不太好玩,家用機對手好像是任天堂吧), 及後陸續出現的中文化hg, 更大大增加了玩家人數, 之後的鬼畜王rance就是windows 的早期遊戲(當年我有好一段時間還是用486跑..), 因為當年硬體追不上,也就沒有什麼好玩的game. 在下當年還買了一本寫的很好的中文rance攻略

之後PS, PS2出現, 年青人的時間開始被灘薄,到了今天,一個acg 人一星期要看6~7 集的anime, 出完又出的winning, 3國無雙, 機戰, 玩不完的OLG ro, 麻痺, 漫畫方面幾近和日本同步, 光靠畫面,hg 相對的吸引力就下降了, 故事嘛, 日文能力要有2級才看的懂有深度的故事吧(我的日文能力只夠看漫畫就是..), 這種日文達人始終不多

寫完,根本就是自己的hg累歷史嘛

sweat
缺水潛艇 +
2005/08/02 18:31
吳先生對這方面果然是比較門外,因為H-GAME現在不是變成次文化,而是因為越來越昇上水面,令日本形成大量社會,道德問題,電視台/大眾傳媒近年更經常以此主力渲染H GAME=OTAKU文化,所以出現很多所謂[隱性OTAKU],因為一般日本社會人士,是絕對地對OTAKU人士異常反感及誤解

LEAF,TYPE MOON等原蚊型公司/同人組織,竟然因一隻兩隻連配音也沒有的成人 GAME(H度不高,但可閱性極高)而成為年收幾億版稅的企業,更令投身此道的公司更多,相關的同人/動畫/FIGURE商業價值,更是每年達幾百億日元....

H-GAME是OTAKU界非常沿遠流長及重要的危險課題,如果你不是好此道者,只是幾千字這樣簡述,是十分不智的~~
makoto +
2005/08/02 18:14
若標題是「h-game」而不是「gal-game」
那心跳回憶就應該不在這個範圍裡
因為心跳是完全沒有H成份的戀愛模擬遊戲

印象較深的有《同級生2》(當年為它寫了十萬字中文小說)
《河原崎家之一族》、《龍騎士4》、《To Heart》...etc
近期玩過的是《君が望む永遠》、《大番長》等...

主題曲...我記得當年《同級生2》是有一首 image sound 的

說起來,近期那隻《School Days》也是蠻多人談論的
除了因為容量極大(安裝要數G才玩到),還有那些血腥暴力的劇情
想像一個可愛的蘿莉拿着刀斬頭,或跳樓之類...
個人對這種有點故意的賣弄其實有點保留
Au Yeung +
2005/08/02 16:54
>kctsang

Your comment is analytical.

The second selling point (屬性) mentioned by you is a major characteristic developing at the same time with the trend of moe games. Specificity in a (or, some) attribute(s) is one of the most important features of moe games nowadays. We can call those attributes "Moe attributes." They do NOT necessarily include adult scenes, but imply a much broader cultural phenomenon.  

Upon your third point, the special positioning of ONE may not be an appropriate judgement. At least, the stress on scenario and music had already been very obvious when Leaf released Shizuku.
Azuma Hiroki, a famous Japanese otaku researcher as well as my friend, regarded the release of Shizuku as the start of "Girl Game Movement." (1995-2004. Azuma considers that the Movement had died under the moe game boom.)

The entertainment element has declined, instead of rised, during the past few years, although it had been being emphasized and strengthened continuously until the late 1990s. Alicesoft is a maker producing games with comparactively entertaining games nowadays. I do not consider Alicesoft "激H" ; the entertainment element and high, stable quality are thought to be the real reasons of its local popularity either.  

Apart from the vast majority treating H-games "Games for H", a small group of core players show their enthusiam in scenario-emphasized games, ensembling the Leaf-Key otaku in Japan. In local game magazines, editors have been always divided into these two groups. I was one of the editors among the latter group. Other examples are ABO of HPCP or Amano of Game Station. We have built constructive relationship, in a sense resisting against the former group. However, just as I have retired from the scene, most members of the latter group have left the industry, recognizing that game magazines do not really have big influence on HK game players.

>小弟曾經在某Hgame攻略中看到批評Air「沉悶,唔知講緊乜」,也在另一本Hgame介紹雜誌中看到指"Quartett!"的畫風「隨便」。

The quality of local magazine editors is so low that they cannot even understand what the games are about.
Moreover, Quartett! is a game with new concepts on representation, instead of on scenario or "H." It is definitely a successful piece.

>正版Hgame方面,由於買正版遊戲和玩Hgame的人數俱少,所以要購入正版Hgame通常要找店舖代訂,可是價錢一點也不便宜,一套原價6800日圓的話可能要港圓$650-

That's right. I think that it may be more economical to buy the games in Japan, given that the player is a frequent Japan visitor.
kctsang +
2005/08/02 16:18
現時的Hgame主要有三種賣點:

1. 人物設定:除了著名原畫師外很少Hgame可以單以這點作為賣點,所以通常都會附有以下任何一點。
2. 十八禁畫面:相比九十年代時Hgame的「一般向十八禁畫面」,現時的Hgame通常帶有一種或多種主題,例如鬼畜,蘿莉,某類服裝等「屬性」。
3. 劇情+音樂:由Tactic社推出的"One"開始所帶起的風氣,不少Hgame名作都屬性類別(例如Air,Comic Party);而且由於此類Hgame通性十八禁畫面不多,可以淨化後再推出全年齡版,甚至於電視遊戲機上推出。
4. 遊戲性:近年有部份Hgame的遊戲性直迫普通遊戲(例如戲畫的Baldr Force,Dual Savior,Xuse的永遠のアセリア),不少也經淨化後在電視遊戲機上推出,可惜留意此類遊戲的香港玩家不多。

由於香港Hgame玩家多數不懂日文或沒有耐性看故事,所以第三類的遊戲多數不受香港Hgame玩家歡迎,變相在香港流行的Hgame多數是「激H」類的作品,例如Alice Soft或Illusion Soft的作品。小弟曾經在某Hgame攻略中看到批評Air「沉悶,唔知講緊乜」,也在另一本Hgame介紹雜誌中看到指"Quartett!"的畫風「隨便」。

正版Hgame方面,由於買正版遊戲和玩Hgame的人數俱少,所以要購入正版Hgame通常要找店舖代訂,可是價錢一點也不便宜,一套原價6800日圓的話可能要港圓$650-$670。
Au Yeung +
2005/08/02 11:35
Sorry for consecutive comments. I would like to make a few comments on the Blog Master's article here.

(1) The difference of the destiny of PC and consumer H-games is largely the result of the difference in regulations set by hardware producers and others.
Nonetheless, non-18-ban girl games, including original ones like Tokimemo, Sentimental Graffiti and Memories Off, and transplanted ("purified") ones like To Heart (PS) and Kanon (PS etc.), are still being produced on the consumer platforms. The definition of "H-game" in your article seems ambiguous. I recommend the term 18-ban games either.

(2)In the pre-Windows era, many HK players experienced 18-ban games through those "several hundred-in-one" pirate PC game CDs, in which a fraction of games recorded were 18-ban games. Later, girl game-only CD-ROMs appeared, symbolizing the popularity of those games.
On the other hand, a few famous games like those of elf and Alicesoft, or those translated into Chinese had been sold separately in shops for mania, but I have to mention that they are just the minority.

(3) I don't think that your narration on the historical development of Japanese 18-ban games are appropriate. That is the change of the trend in HK indeed.
Girl games appeared in early 1980s as a 2-dimensional counterpart of AV. During the late 1980s and 1990s, two elements, that is, scenario and character design had been largely strengthened, leading to the rise of many famous pieces like Dokyusei Series. In the late 1990s, Leaf and Key brought a new paradigm shiftto the industry, in that they particularly emphasized on the moving, sometimes philosophical stories, not only dramatic developments. (Though I must admit that some games in the early 1990s, like Can Can Bunny Extra which takes a "left-wing" viewpoint on the past war crime, are already moving and philosophical.) Key put its stress especially on "family," leading to the birth of several games with "family" as their themes. The present 18-ban game is a world of "Moe game" particularly designed for the quickening of the feeling of moe upon characters, many of them looking like a young children.
On the other hand, the so-called "Kichiku" games have also been developing for a long period of time, with elf's Isaku, Shusaku and Kisaku being their representative pieces. Kichiku games are also under the trend of story-emphasizing. A famous kichiku game with excellent story, apart from elf's works, is Rasenkairo. However, just like those "pure-love" games, kichiku games are also being pressed by moe games, which are the present majority.

As a conclusion, the change from pure-love to kichiku is just a local trend in HK. Moe games, which require special cultural capital (by Pierre Bourdieu) of Japanese otaku, do not enjoy a market in HK. Some shopkeepers told me that moe games did not have consumers in HK, so that they had stopped buying in them.
The decline of H-games in HK is definitely related to the rise of moe games. The two tendencies happen at the same time.

Sorry for long comments.
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